Transcript: Accessibility Part 1

by Tim Wright

This is the transcript for The Dirt episode: Accessibility Part 1

Tim Wright: You really have to stop pretending to be Batman.

Hello and welcome to Episode 4 of The Dirt. I am your host Tim Wright and
I’m here today with Steve and Mark. Steve and Mark are both ocelot
enthusiasts, lifetime baritones, and children of the Earth.

Gentlemen, say hello.

Steve: How is everybody?

Mark: Hello. That was more of a tenor.

Tim: That was all right.

Steve: We can’t all be perfect.

Mark: You’re still talking like Batman. Yeah, I’m not going there.

Tim: Moving on. Okay, that’s really out of the gate, we’re doing well
today.

So, today we’re going to talk about something that’s really important to me
and I’ve been pushing for for a very long time. It’s accessibility.

First off I wanted to talk about this pattern that I recognize when we’re
in web development and design where we have these things that we do, these
core principals and we start coding, and everything. Then something new
comes into the mix, whether it’s accessibility, or Ajax, or what else?
Something new, mobile, and it’s the same kind of pattern. When I first
started building back in the early 2000s, really.

Steve: More like 19 dickatiy 2.

Tim: Yes, I am 107 years old.

Mark: That’s years.

Steve: Haven’t you ever seen the Simpsons?

Tim: So, back when I first started there was the movement–we we’re just
switching over the CSS and then accessibility really came into the light.
We would go through our whole design process and then we would say, “Oh,
let’s make this site accessible.” It was an afterthought and the same sort
of pattern came with mobile. We would build this website and we were like,
“Well, let’s make it mobile.” The same pattern happened with responsive
design, we make this website and, “Oh, let’s make it responsive.” As time
goes on we start to integrate these things into our process more and more,
so it’s more of a natural thing, it’s not a movement anymore.

That happened with accessibility not too long ago, but they’re just things
that we do now. We know about ALT text and really basic Section 508
accessibility. Then AJAX came along and we found out about AJAX
accessibility and we’ll get into all these topics in a little more detail.
But, really, it’s an afterthought and I feel like it’s almost taking a back
seat again. We still have those basic things that we do, but there’s a lot
more stuff we can do and we’re hoping to kind of get into that stuff.

So, I want to start off with maybe talking about, between the three of us,
what accessibility means to us and we can go around, you know, “What did
you do on your summer vacation?” Sort of a thing.

So that’s what it means to me. Steve, what do you think of when you think
of accessibility?

Steve: Well, I have to be honest, as far as accessibility is concerned I’m
probably one of the criminals that you’re talking about that is, i really
sort of consider it as an afterthought. At the end of the process. I’ll do
something about it if I do something at all. It’s a real problem, I’ve been
realizing it lately, especially being exposed to the work you’ve been doing
and the work you’ve been advocating around our offices made me pay
attention to how important this is going to be. So, I thing about it as,
much like you’re saying, it’s a base thing. It should be part of the
process the whole way through.

That’s also how I’ve come to think about responsive design lately, it’s not
a feature, it’s not an addition that we do later on, it’s something that
should be just a default per a project. So, hopefully in the next year I’ll
be able to stand tall and say, “Yep, all accessible.”

Mark: Yeah, during that part where Steve is getting real friendly about
Tim, Tim was just blushing. He was just looking adorable.

Tim: I’m always adorable and I’m wearing a tie. Mark’s wearing a tie.
Steve’s not a team player, yet again, but that’s neither here nor there.

Mark: Yeah. For me accessibility, again, and I’m not coming from a strong
development background as much as a design background, so for me it’s
wasn’t even on the table simply out of, when I started doing web
development it was whatever I can do to make this a functional site to me,
on the browser that I am using. It was like, “I just need to get it
working.” Anything fancy beyond that, whether it was accessibility or
really great behaviors I didn’t look at that. As I’ve learned, I’m still
going as a structural and code base person,.

But I do have some personal experience with my great aunt, who’s 96 and at
94 she got an iPad. She’d had a Mac for about 10 or 15 years before that,
so she got her first computer in her early 80’s, has been using them a lot.
I’m the one who’s always going in to visit her and say, “Oh, let me fix
that for you.” She’s got her nice big display cranked up to like 800×600
resolution and taking a lot of steps to make sure that that machine is
working for her. So, I’ve seen what a difference it makes when a computer
is set up by default versus when it’s been tailored for her. This is of
course native application and everything, but when it’s been tailored for
her particular limitations how she thrives. It changes the experience 100%.
It makes someone who literally could not use something to something that
they can use just as well as anybody else.

Tim: Yeah, that’s a great point. We all have grandmothers at some point,
old parents, and whatnot. When you think of accessibility a lot times you
think of blind. That’s the default that I think of and there’s so much more
than that. There’s just visually impaired in general, there’s deaf,

Steve: Cognitively impaired.

Tim: Right, and to that end it would not only be limited of course to
senior citizens. This could be newborns, teenagers, adults, anyone with any
of these limitations they may have to accessing the web as it’s coded
standardly.

Steve: Especially as we move into a realm of preparing for touch devices
and seeing how wide spread those are becoming. Physical disabilities are
becoming more important. It’s bad enough to use a mouse or a keyboard if
you’re physically disabled, but then actually having to do complex
interactions, multi-touch gestures, and things like that, that can be a
real issue.

Mark: But I think that’ why Tim was saying that he feels like it’s taking a
backseat again. I think as the web’s capabilities have grown so
exponentially with the explosion of devices it’s very easy to get caught up
in, “Holy crap, look what I can do!” And forget about some of these basics
that we really have to be covering, because if you’re focusing only on the
whiz-bang future you can lose your really base structure.

Tim: Yeah, and I think a lot of these things can just be addressed by
following progressive enhancement, a lot of the times. I mean, some of
things that are more intense like video requires captioning, that’s not
progressive enhancement. Well I guess maybe a little bit on the very
highest level, but just following your basic structural layer, presentation
layer, behavior layer and make it gracefully degrade, and just make sure
you build it in flexible way. Simple things like being able to tab through
an interface, something like that.

There was an opera concept that was really big a couple of years ago called
One Web. I think it was because Opera was failing so miserably in the
mobile sector. Although Opera Mini is very popular, but they weren’t of the
major browsers, but it really tailors to, “We build this thing once and we
build it for everybody, regardless of the device you’re accessing it on,
your disabilities, whatever, you can always get to the most important stuff
that is very important.” The audience of disabled users may not be a
prevalent to everybody, but they’re still extremely important and you
shouldn’t exclude them.

Steve: Yeah, from a morale standpoint you’re writing off a percentage of
you user base for no acceptable reason whatsoever. That’s really one of the
biggest things that I’ve seen as a problem with my process and something
that I’m going to work to rectify in all of my projects coming up. You
can’t just ignore people because it’s inconvenient to develop for them. We
have a duty to create an experience for our users that’s as good as
possible.

Tim: Yeah, I think that moral standpoint is something that as a frontend
developer/designer that I standby pretty closely, so I don’t have any
really business tie in to this stuff. I’ve met these people. I’ve seen them
use some sites and applications that I’ve built, and really, when you see
somebody that’s disabled use what you’ve built and they can use it, it’s
just great.

Then there’s also the flip side of when you build something and you want
someone disabled to use it and they can’t use it. You’re like, “Wow! I
completely forgot about this type of person.” And mean be honest, you feel
like a jerk.

Mark: It’s nice to know and again the reason to do it is, one small change
you can do. It might be an hour of work for you, it might be a minute of
work for you, can mean a world of difference for somebody else.

Tim: Yeah, and we do that just in general in user experience. As developers
and designers we spend hours, days crafting an interface that’s someone’s
going to take 30 seconds to go through. It’s the same thing, it’s user
experience, but it’s not user experience for this group of people, it’s
user experience for everybody.

There’s a concept called universal design that got big a couple of years
ago. I sat in at the South by Southwest talk about it and what it basically
boils down to is designing something that is targeted towards people, but
everybody can use. The example, it’s not a ramp, but on a sidewalk where
the sidewalk turns into the road–again, like the fourth episode in a row
I’m using hand gesture s to describe things–but the ramp that goes down
into the road from the sidewalk is for wheelchairs, but you can use it for
the baby stroller, anything that has wheels, it’s a universally designed
feature. We can take that and transfer it over to the web.

But there’s also the business aspect of it, which I think is harder to
communicate. We talked about this week a little bit with monetizing your
user experience when the designers and decision makers have to find a
middle ground. A lot of times when you’re communicating with the decision
makers and you say, “We need to make this accessible. ” They’ll be like,
“Well, why should I do that. It’s not going to make me any money, is it?”
I’ve sat down in the room with these people and you argue with them. You
can argue with them as passionately as you want to, but unless you show
them the bottom line, sometime you’re talking to a wall.

Steve: As the user advocate in this process we can sit here and have warm
and fuzzy feelings and do our best to be good people, and sometimes you
can’t get a business person to listen to, but from a business standpoint
ignoring disabled users could close you off from something like 10% of your
website traffic. If you can’t appeal to a person on an emotional level of
just being a good person at the very least you can appeal to them in the
level of their wallet. You might feel a little dirty doing it, but if the
end result is your users get a better experience and you’re not leaving
anybody behind then you’ve done a good thing.

Tim: There are certain legal requirements, there’s Section 508 and the ADA
laws where if you’re a government agency or you’re funded by the
government, like a public university, you have to adhere to these Section
508 accessibility standards. I will say that those standards are not very
good. They’re a baseline and they did just revamp them to include a lot of
media, audio and video. But if you can just use them as a baseline, even if
you’re not required to it as a government agency, you can point to this
thing and say, “There are guidelines for it and there’s been a history of
people getting in trouble for not following it.”

Steve: Yeah, Target was actually sued over this. Not only were they not
using accessible elements on their website, but they actually actively
refused to update the website to include them when this was pointed out.
They were sued accordingly, because that is, aside from being practice, it
was just kind of a jerk to say, “Hey, we can’t use your website, because
you did bad job.” And they’re just going to fire back with, “Well, too bad.
Well, what do you expect?”

Tim: It was as ALT text that that law suit was over. It’s such a simple
thing to change, assuming you’re not Target and you have like 5,000 static
web pages that need to be updated. I’m assuming they have some sort of CMS,
it should be such a simple change, and they just refused to do it and they
got sued. It was a huge lawsuit. They lost a lot of money and they’ve been
model since then of when you’re advocating for it you say, “Hey, look,
Target got sued.” You hate to be that guy, but . . .

Steve: It’s helpful when you’re trying to persuade people that they need to
pay serious attention to this to point to a really big company that lost a
lot of money over it.

Tim: I know, and Steve mentioned earlier the 10% of your traffic. It may
not seem like a whole lot, but if you have five million hits a day and 10%
of them are disabled users, it’s certainly worth it, especially on an
ecommerce site like Amazon or something. I kind of compare it to Internet
Explorer support. I usually cut off support for a browser at 4%. When it
drops below that I’ll just, it can just gracefully degrade. If your
disabled users are 10% that’s way more than what you’re going to do for
Internet Explorer, and you have to do way less to be accessible at a
baseline level than you do to prepare for IE7.

There’s a lot of little things you can do like Semantic HTML, very simple.
The whole web standards movement push that really hard. We mentioned ALT in
title text and those are the big target issue. There’s times when you
should use ALT text, there’s times when you don’t actually have to use ALT
text and it’s all based on screen readers, really.

I don’t mean to take up the whole time on the mic, but . . .

I was recently at an accessibility meet up and they were giving a
presentation about ALT text. We were thinking about when not to use it and
we saw somebody go through a screen reader and it was an image that had a
caption next to it, and the ALT text was the same as the caption. It was
like the ALT text was a picture of my house and the caption was, “Picture
of my house.”

Mark: Helpful.

Tim: Yeah. So it’s not very helpful. It’s the same thing about putting
title text on links. This is something that WordPress really pushes for
some reason, putting title text on links. A lot of times the title text is
the same exact text as it is in the link, so it will say, “Contact us,”
title text, “contact us.” It just reads it twice and it’s completely
useless.

There’s also a difference between ALT text and captions where the “picture
of my house” isn’t helpful to describing an image. That may be helpful in a
caption, but when you’re using the ALT text you want to describe the actual
image, so it’s not “Picture of my house” it’s “White house with blue
shutters.”

Steve: ALT text is one of those things where I’ve actually been super good
about making sure people adhere to that in past jobs. I was always
surprised when people wouldn’t listen, but you have to be super descriptive
with it and you have to be super consistent about doing it, because at a
basic level it’s the simplest thing you can absolutely do to improvability
of your website. So I will atone for my other sins by saying that I am an
absolute stickler for ALT text.

Mark: Excellent, Steve, I’m sure everybody appreciates it.

Steve: I’m trying.

Tim: When you see these disabled users go through the screen reading
software and they’re getting to these ALT text, they’re just brutal and
they don’t get angry about it. That’s the thing they’re so used to having
bad ALT text that even if you have the image path in there sometimes
they’ll just read the file name to understand what the image is, like,
they’re so understanding with it at this point. It’s something to see. It
really hits home when you see someone go through that.

I thought my train of thought, because I was talking too long.

Steve: Well, how do we get accessible? Let’s just start with that next.
Before you even get into the development process you have a design, by that
a static Photoshop comps, or maybe you’ve got into the browser and you’ve
done your best to work there as quickly as possible, but regardless of
that; let’s talk about the very basic level. The first thing that I
normally consider is color. Most of my designs I start in black and white
under the theory that if it doesn’t work in black and white and it doesn’t
have enough contrast, it’s never going to work in color no matter how hard
you try.

But, say you have a colorblind user, if you’re just using something like
green versus red to indicate good versus bad in your interface you’ve
completely lost them at this point. They are going to have no idea what to
do, so instead you want to be conscious of how you’re using color and be
using color as an enhancement. Color should support things like common
icons or words that indicate to a user what is happening on a page, be it a
warning or a positive alert, or just an indicator of general positivity or
negativity. Color is supposed to back up the form that conveys that.

Tim: What’s really a nice thing about this is that it reinforces already
good design practice anyway, that if you’re trying to designate something
as a header, trying to call attention to something, it’s nice to
differentiate in things, whether through form, through size, through
position, purely from a compositional standpoint as a designer. Then to
remember to isolate so you’re not relying on the one thing. It’s good
practice that then plays wells into accessibility in general as well.

Mark: I think that’s a great point, because a lot of times in accessibility
I think of code, and color is huge, like massively important. I think the
amount of colorblind people are probably greater than that 10% of just
generally disabled users.

Steve: I might be completely wrong on this, but I seem to remember it being
a statistic that 25% of the male population is colorblind and many of them
don’t even know it, so if you don’t even know you’re colorblind, you don’t
know you’re missing anything, you can’t bypass that in any way.

Tim: Yeah, and colorblindness also is not something that’s necessarily
completely binary, you’ve got full spectrum or you’ve got no spectrum. It’s
often red, green. You’ve got a field of the spectrum that you can’t see or
you perceive differently. It’s not the movie Pleasantville going from color
to black and white, there are grades in between, so it’s good to be
conscious across the board.

Steve: I had a sort of odd experience my senior year at art school. One of
my classmates, we’d gone through three and a half years together and we
were working on our senior thesis projects and he decides to do a project
on optical illusions. So we’re getting a couple of months into the project
and he’s struggling with a few things trying to figure out how he’s going
to convey them to people. One day he asks us for some help. He’s looking
through a book and he says, “I can’t see the optical illusion on this one.
I don’t understand what I’m supposed to be conveying with this test.” We
all take a look at it and we’re like, “Ah, I don’t understand, why can’t
you see it?” He just points back at it, “There’s nothing there!” It one of
those things, it’s like a circle of smaller circles and you’re supposed to
see a number written in it and that was the day we realized that he was
colorblind and had gone through three and half years of design school
without realizing it, which is pretty impressive. I mean, he was actually a
really good student, but that day completely changed the way he looked at
all the work he did. Somehow by default his projects were probably all
perfect for colorblind people, because it they worked for him . . .He
didn’t realize he was helping them, but it was a really interesting
experience.

Mark: So there’s a missing link in the college career development center,
“Colorblind? Become a UI designer, become a developer.”

Tim: I actually had a fifth grade teacher ask me if I was colorblind once.
It was right around the Marlins and the Rockies got added to Major League
Baseball and I was wearing like teal shorts and a purple shirt and I walked
into the classroom.

I just remembered this.

Mark: No sense of fashion.

Tim: No. Mrs. Monroe I think her name was. She just sort of looked at me. I
was this little four foot tall kind and she’s like, “Are you colorblind?”
It stuck for me for I don’t even know how long, 20 years it stuck with me
that she thought I was colorblind.

Mark: No, you just really like your sport teams.

Tim: To my knowledge I’m not colorblind though.

So, before we keep going I wanted to mention something. Guess who we have
this week, gentlemen?

Anybody? No?

We have a sponsor this week.

Mark: Hurray.

Tim: This is our first week with a sponsor and I want to mention them real
quick. They’re a great organization it’s Global Accessibility Awareness Day
is our sponsor this week. They hold an event, the first event was last May
and it went across the globe really, Global Accessibility Awareness,
obviously across the globe, but we had a meet up here in Boston and it was
down at the Caroll Center for the Blind. Everybody got together and we just
talked about accessibility. It spanned the whole country and there were
some meet ups in, I think, Iceland, and through Europe, maybe in Asia, I’m
not sure. I know there was one in Australia, but it immediately took off
and there was almost no preparation for this. There were a couple of guys
in L.A. and they just said, “Hey, let’s do this.” The set a date for May
9th and they just did it.

Well the organization that’s putting that on is also putting on three
events nationwide, it’s Accessibility Camp, there’s one in Los Angeles,
Washington D.C., and Toronto. They’re free events for everybody. They do
ask that you register so they can get a headcount for free food. It’s
awesome. And, if they’re not having free food I imagine that they will have
to do it now, because I announced it. If you’re in these respective cities
you can get to the website on Accessibilitycampla.org,
accessibilitycampDC.org, and accessibilitycampto.org. We’ll put these in
the show notes and any contact information that you might need.

But I think it’s a great way to have a sponsor on the Accessibility Show.
They’re great guys. I know the folks who run it and I hope you show up if
you’re in those areas. It’s a great cause and great thing to do.

Steve: And we’re super excited to have our first sponsor. Not only because
they’re the first sponsor, but because they’re definitely a great sponsor
to have. We’re super proud.

Mark: Yeah, and I promise, when Tim asked, “Who do we have this week?” We
do actually know and are very excited about the sponsor, it was just very
confusing phrasing. What you don’t know is Paul’s in the room over there–
is that soup?–he’s our studio audience, so I thought when Tim was saying,
“Who do we have?” I’m like, “We’ve got Paul.” He’s over there, we have a
sponsor.

So, no, we’re very excited and we thank the guys for sponsoring the show
this week.

Steve: Moving on. When we’re talking about with design accessibility this
one I’ve been finding particularly interesting lately. When talked about
icon fonts on the show a couple of times and they’re really great from a
visually perspective. They really help you solve the resolution
independence problem, but they’re not exactly accessible depending on how
they’re implemented, to be fair. Some of them are using, I think, an empty
Unicode space to render, which gives a screen reader no idea what the icon
is actually supposed to be. There are some other sort of janky methods I’ve
witnessed.

One of the ones I really like is an icon font called Symbol Set, where you
actually type out the word “home” and it becomes a ligature that is the
icon in question, so a screen reader would read the word “home” in place of
just skipping any sort of icon. It’s a fascinating design and I’m probably
going to try to use that.

Tim: I think that would be great in responsive design as well. When you
have your text navigation across the top and as you shrink to page you can
load in the icon font and then pop the icons in there.

Steve: Yeah, it’s a common technique I’ve seen.

Tim: They do have a pretty extensive library too, I think. They obviously
do have every word, but–

Steve: It’s very well designed, too.

Mark: Yeah, it’s also neat from the perspective of being able to read your
own code. You know, when you’re looking through your code and it’s just a
whole ton of characters in these Unicode things. It’s not only annoying for
screen readers, it’s annoying for you as a designer. You’re reading your
code and you’re like, “Oh yeah, here’s that Icon 1146. Helpful.” So it’s a
nice feature for everybody.

Tim: Yeah, and something else I wanted to talk about with design was
designing buttons. There’s a lot of things and even in Twitter Bootstrap,
there’s a CSS class called “Button” or something like button. It’s like
“Button Read”, “Button Cancel”, or something and you can put it on links or
buttons. What it does is it makes it look like a button. It happens in
design all the time, but the problem with doing something like that is, I’m
going to tell a story: When I was at the Global Accessibility Awareness
meet up I was listing to somebody tell story, it was a visually impaired
user and they were talking to some else over the phone and they were on the
same website and they tell this person, “Oh, go down the page and click on
the Submit button–say it was a submit button. Well, it wouldn’t have been
a submit button. It was whatever it was.

Steve: Blank button.

Tim: Button X–“Go down the page and click on Button X.” Well in a screen
reader you can navigate to buttons and button has an HTML element so, what
this person does is they go through, “Oh, it’s a button, so I’m going to go
through and find this button that says, “Button X” on it.” And they can
never find it, like, “I don’t know, I can’t find this button. I don’t know
what you’re talking about.” It turned out to be a text link that was styled
like a button, so that kind of opened my eyes to that, because it’s a very
common practice to make a link look like a button.

Steve: Until recently I wasn’t even aware of that problem, so I’ve done
that a few times. Last week I went back and addressed one of my old
projects that had that problem and fixed that. I come from primarily a
visual design background. Code is something I ended up teaching myself, to
a large degree and finding some other resources to help me with, so it just
never occurred to me to go beyond the visual part of that design.

Tim: It’s one of those weird things that unless you actually talk to these
users that you would never find that out.

Mark: Yeah, because in the end what are you worried about for the most
time? You’re worried about, like I said about myself, with self teaching
you’re worried about just making the thing work, especially when you’re
starting out. You want to make sure that the thing in your head and the
thing in the code become the same thing when the render in the browser and
whatever it takes–and as you learn to be better semantically a little bit
more, but it was very eye opening, I heard that same story.

Tim: Yeah, and that kind of brings us into a more development focused
segment, I guess, of accessibility. We’re going to kind of keep it a little
bit abbreviated, but forms just in general. There’s a human behavior with
disabled users that when they’re going through a screen reader there’s
something called “forms mode.” When you’re going to a page that has a form
on it, like a sign up form or anything, you generally know maybe from the
title, tag, or whatever that there’s going to be a form on this page and
you’re going to want to navigate through the form. So what they do is they
enter forms mode and what happens in forms mode is only form elements will
get read. That means field sets, inputs, buttons, checkboxes, which is an
input, legends–

Steve: Radio buttons, select menus. . .

Tim: Yeah, those are form controls. I mean, those are form elements and
when you put in a helper text that’s a paragraph, that doesn’t get read by
the screen reader it just skips right over it.

This is something that, again, if you don’t see somebody using a screen
reader you don’t know that even forms mode exist and this is how they use
it. It makes it a little bit harder to develop at first, but once you get
used to it and you know that when you’re entering a form you know that you
only have this set of tags that you can use. It’s getting better with
HTML5. We have the email attribute, the numbers, and there’s a lot of
different stuff that they’re working through and they’re all better and
better for accessibility, but it’s very important to not put just helper
text in there, and if you’re going to do it you have to associate it with a
form field, so you can do multiple labels.

Steve: This is one of those areas where a properly developed form that has
been made for accessibility purposes is more usable for every user as well,
not just disabled users. I mean, just being able to properly tab through a
form is a huge advantage for being able to fill it out efficiently. That’s
something that helps everybody and it’s a big pet peeve of mine when it’s
not done properly.

Tim: Yeah, it’s just something that you learn as you go through, I think.
You discuss what’s going on. There’s actually one specific incident that
sticks out in my head, which is Facebook. This more has to do with source
order than anything. This is another thing that Global Accessibility
Awareness Day did for me–and I’m not trying to plug the sponsors, I swear
to God, even though we do like them–this was an actual thing I went to
last May. There was somebody talking about Facebook and the Facebook sign
in form the way it’s laid out, I’m sure we’ve all seen it. You have user
name, password, submit button, and then underneath that is a little box
that says, “Remember Me.” Well the source order for that, even though it
looks like it’s all related, the source order is just like I said it,
“name, password, button, remember me.” So if you’re going through with a
screen reader it’s going to read, “name, password, button,” and then you’re
going to submit the form and you will never see that remember me option,
unless somebody tells you it’s there.

So you don’t get the same experience. You’re degrading the user experience
and it’s something as simple as source order.

Mark: And was back when you heard this talk.

Tim: No, it’s still like that.

Mark: It is still like that? I didn’t want to trash talk Facebook if in
fact they had changed it, because I do know they do have a very quick
development cycle, but if they’re still doing it, yeah, come on Facebook,
pick up your game.

Tim: Yeah, like yesterday when we were deciding to do the accessibility
talk, I looked at it to make sure, and yeah, it’s still like that.

Steve: That’s another one of those things that until it was explained to me
I hadn’t even realized it. Now that I’m aware of it it’s something I’ll be
looking out for.

Tim: I think we have actually a lot more stuff to talk about and I think
we’re running a little short on time, so we might break this into two
sessions, unless we have some major . . .

We’re cool? We’re getting the thumbs up.

Mark: I think it’s worth it, because we talked a lot about why you would do
this, but I think the how is just as important. We want to really spend
some time on the development angle, So I say, “To be continued.”

Time: Yes, and next time we pick this up, probably next week, maybe the
week after, but very soon. There’s a lot of stuff in AJAX accessibility,
SVG and Canvas, even media queries that we need to address and that we want
to get out there.

We also wanted to announce some events that we have in the office, some
Fresh Tilled Soil events that we’re going to be speaking at. I am going to
be speaking at the Frontend Developers meet up in October, October 24th, so
we’d love to see you come out to that. You can find it on Meetup.com or
we’ll also put a link in the show.

I know we have a couple of other events.

Mark: At the end of October we are going to be–we’re in the process of
organizing a portfolio review event for the Boston interactive design
community. The date is October 30th. It’s most likely going to be 6:00 to
8:00. We’ve got a few details forthcoming, but again that’s also on Meetup
and we’ve got a URL in Eventbright to RSVP. We’re going to have some
speakers, the opportunities for designers to bring in their portfolios and
get those evaluated. Details on that will be coming some, but it will have
a link in the show notes.

Tim: Yes, and in know we have a couple there, the names are escaping me at
this time, but we’ll put them in the show notes.

Mark: We’ll put them all there.

Tim: Yeah, we’ll put them all in the show notes.

Mark: We’re leaning really hard on these show notes this week.

Tim: Yeah, I think we have like five events coming up actually, so we have
a lot of stuff going and we hope you come out and see us talk, and ramble,
and do this in person.

Steve: Once again, thanks for bearing with us.

Tim: We want to thank our sponsor once again for being our number one
sponsor for the show.

Mark: In every respect.

Tim: Hopefully we’ll have some more next week and thanks, you guys, for
talking with me, and we’ll try to do better next time.

Thanks for listening.

About Fresh Tilled Soil

Fresh Tilled Soil is a Boston-based user interface and experience design firm focused on human centered digital design